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Do you like jigsaw puzzles? - Volunteer for the Null Saddles Project #4101
Back To Discussion List Written: 2013.11.05 by: Robin Tivy

Walker McBryde, Fred Touche, and I have been working for the last couple of months to improve the mountain database by filling in the "Saddle latlong" field in the mountain records. In many mountains, these are left empty ("null"). The value of knowing the saddle location is that it allows anyone else to verify the prominence. Somehow the peak list websites in the USA got into the habit of just stating the prominence, but not the saddle location. So we want to fix up at least the Canadian data. If you understand prominence and key saddles, and like jigsaw puzzles, please email me. I'll set up a report that gives you several hundred peaks to fix.

Walker and I have just completed Alberta, but there are thousands in BC that are not done. For most peaks the key saddle is right beside the peak or nearby. So filling in the location is simply a matter of looking at the GMap, finding the saddle location, and copying the latlong into the mountain record. There are some tough cases, such as peaks where the key saddle is a long way away, and to crack them sometimes involves adding more peaks. For these cases, you just need to send me an email, and I'll put in the necessary stuff and tell you what I did.

Here is a Prominence Editors Guide to give you an idea of what is involved.


#1753 - 2013.12.12 Glenn Woodsworth - Null height sources
Don't forget to check that the height source is correct. For BC, it should be trim spot or contour or, for some minor towers and the like, intelligent estimate. There are many peaks missing this info on Haida Gwaii.

#1752 - 2013.12.12 Robin Tivy - Project Progess
This has turned out to be a huge project but is resulting in substantial improvements in the Canadian mountain database. The project has been going on for more than a month now. You can see from the "Improved Infrastructure" link that Glenn Woodsworth, Fred Touche, myself, and Wayne Weber have been fixing hundreds of peaks per week. Glenn is working on the giant Mid-coast area including Waddington, Monarch, Silverthrone, etc. which he has personal experience of having climbed many of them. We've been finding a lot more problems than just null saddle lat-longs. Below is a typical list:

- wrong location (lat-long is off and peak is on the side of a hill)
  - wrong heights (non-trim heights)
  - height source not filled in
  - wrong line parents. We used to jump over peaks in some cases, but now we are fixing that
  - duplicate names. There have been a couple dozen duplicate system generated directional names like "Bald S2" and Bald S2. (Two peaks both 2 km from "Bald".
  - missing peaks. I've found at least a dozen P500 peaks that were not in the database.

So we're having lots of fun, but it is addictive. I'm just looking at Haida Gwaii (the Queen Charlottes), and going thru a report that showed about 30 peaks that do not have any line parent or prominence info. But before I could fix that, I've noticed the heights are off by 20 or 30m and also the locations are off. When they were put in, I guess we didn't have the TRIM maps.

It's not too late to get into this fun. You can pick any one of the areas on the clickable map, and spend some hours fixing up that area.

#1740 - 2013.11.07 Robin Tivy - Answer to Glen Woodsworth
I created a special report that shows all the peaks with a null saddle in ANY given area. Just go to the area page and click "Null Saddles".

For this project, I created a special temporary area called "South Bella Coola ARea" for Glen Woodsworth. There are currently 76 nullSaddle peaks in that area. The way to find the saddles is to start with some convenient peak in the area, then click the GMapForm or "TRIM" link. Then pick out the saddles.

Here is a link to the area:

Glen Woodsworth Area

#1739 - 2013.11.06 Glenn Woodsworth - Coast Mths
I'll get back to the Coast Mtns. Is there a report that shows which peaks south of Bella Coola are missing this?