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Manning Park Snowmobile Infractions - Progress Log #2305
Back To Discussion List Written: 2009.04.08 by: Robin Tivy

The purpose of this discussion is to keep a public log of exactly what progress has been made on curbing the snowmobile infractions specifically in the Manning Park area. The idea is to work with all levels of the government, and publish a public record of what progress has been made, if any. Thus it will become obvious who is doing what, (or not doing anything).

"Intelligent" means that from the reply, we can tell that the person receiving the letter actually read the letter, and appears to understand the problem. (As opposed to a standard form letter).

"Progress" is defined as an intelligent reply to a phone call, letter, or email.

If we come across people who won't answer their phones, or don't reply to letters, we can report this as well, since it will be helpful to anyone else working on the campaign to know who is effective, and who is not.


Comments

#1834 - 2016.04.14 Robin Tivy - Ed Atkinson phones back, has worked on problem
Ed Atkinson (BC Parks person in charge of Manning Park) phoned me in response to my email last week, and we talked for several hours about how to prevent illegal access to Manning Park. He logged onto bivouac and we then discussed the illegal access using the GMap. He has been up there on the ground recently with a truck and BC Parks snowmobile to investigate. He knows the place where the snowmobile trailers park. To actually follow the tracks would require two people, due to parks employee regulations. He digitized the road they are probably using and sent me the waypoints. I have temporarily called it Machine road.

He has done quite a bit of investigation on the ground regarding this access, including driving up this road with a BC Parks snow machine and trying to figure out where they get into the park.

Pull the bridge: He feels that gates would not be effective because they would probably be cut thru. His preferred solution is to pull the bridge over Copper creek. There are only 2 bridges across the creek. He met with forestry and discussed this, however forestry tells him they want to log for the next 5 years in there, so the bridge can't be pulled.

He thinks the most likely point of access is the col between Third Brother and Fourth Brother at 49.181,-120.799.

#1833 - 2016.04.11 Robin Tivy - Sent Email to Ed Atkinson
I have been telling various people about your efforts to control the illegal snowmobile access to Manning Park. Unfortunately, people tell me our efforts have failed. Sure enough, I was up there Saturday Apr 9 on skis, and saw and heard the usual machines in the park. By the time I got there, they were tearing up and down the ridge at 49.180132,-120.822487, but had evidently been everywhere else in the past week.

I've been on about a dozen ski trips in this area and three trips in the past year in this Similkameen headwaters area, and every time there are snowmobile tracks or machines. All others I have talked to have always to report snowmobile tracks. I would be very surprised if anyone could ever go into that area and not see recent evidence of illegal machine use.

Earlier you suggested phoning you at the point we see the infraction. However on Saturday we discovered there is no cell phone reception on any of our phones in that part of the park. So we need a new plan. I must conclude that our voluntary efforts are failing. The only way to control the machines is to gate or deactivate the road. Looking at the map, I think the road most likely is the Sunday Summit road which goes up Copper creek. The other possible road is the Whipsaw Creek road, but I think it is probably not how they get there.

Which location do you think would be the best for a gate or deactivation? What we really need is for someone such as yourself to take a drive up there, and see where the tracks go in. So the area I would suggest for a gate would be just after the turnoff at 49.236207,-120.563536. This is at 4000 feet but I think that during the spring problem season the snow would already be gone. Can you send me back an email filling me in on anything you can find out, so I have more facts at my disposal?

#1802 - 2015.04.21 Robin Tivy - Ed Atkinson sends update report
(Editors Note: I received the following email from Ed Atkinson regarding things he has done to address the problem.

Hello Robin Tivy at Bivouac.com,
 I have received several contact through you membership regarding the Snowmobile access in to the three brothers area of EC Manning Provincial Park. I would like to provide a brief update to you and the membership as it seems the report in this area have diminished. I have contacted snowmobile group members and individuals operating snow machines in areas around Princeton and Otter lake and requested there compliance to the restrictions within the park. I have continued to remain in contact with some individuals within the Snowmobile community. With the information provided to me by the Bivouac membership and others, I have use dates time to approach individuals and request there compliance. I have connected with the float plane association and helicopter companies when over flying the park to watch for evidence of snow machine actives in the park. I would like to thank bivouac.com membership, the float plane association , helicopter companies, RCMP, snowmobile clubs and concerned individuals for their efforts to assist in monitoring this situation.

As the upcoming 2014/15 winter season approaches, I would like to remind members to pass on any information regarding Snowmobile use.

Regards

Ed Atkinson West Okanagan Area Supervisor

#1782 - 2014.08.15 Robin Tivy - Ed Atkinson reports his progress
Editors Note: I received this email from Ed Atkinson, the Area supervisor for Manning, and I thought I would post it because it shows that the Bivouac snowmobile infraction logs are effective.

Hello Robin
 I have received several contacts from Bivouac members regarding the Snowmobile access in to the three brothers area of EC Manning Provincial Park. I would like to provide a brief update to you and the membership as it seems the report in this area have diminished. I have contacted snowmobile group members and individuals operating snow machines in areas around Princeton and Otter lake and requested there compliance to the restrictions within the park. I have continued to remain in contact with some individuals within the Snowmobile community. With the information provided to me by the Bivouac membership and others, I have use dates time to approach individuals and request there compliance. I have connected with the float plane association and helicopter companies when over flying the park to watch for evidence of snow machine actives in the park. I would like to thank bivac.com membership, the float plane association , helicopter companies, RCMP, snowmobile clubs and concerned individuals for their efforts to assist in monitoring this situation.

As the upcoming 2014/15 winter season approaches, I would like to remind members to pass on any information regarding Snowmobile use.

Regards

Ed Atkinson West Okanagan Area Supervisor

#1227 - 2009.04.23 Ed Atkinson - Manning Park Progress
On April 21, 2009 I received a report back indicating that no new snow machine tracks were found in the area of the Cambie Creek trail West to Granger Creek. I have not received any other reports to date. I am watching the snow machine staging areas which are very quiet at this time. The snow is melting out quickly. I'm engaging the Snowmobile Association of BC for assistance in this and developing a map and singe for the FSR access areas identifying the area closures. I would like to thank all those who commented and provided information regarding this issue. I will continue to work on this thought the summer in the hopes that next winter we will not need to have further discussions.

Ed Atkinson

#1221 - 2009.04.09 Robin Tivy - Ed Atkinson Gives Detailed Reply, and outlines his progress on the problem
Ed Atkinson is the West Okanagan Area Supervisor, Parks and Protected Areas Division. I emailed him immediately after my discussion with John Trewhitt. Ed promptly replied to my email of yesterday. Not only did he reply, but he posted road bulletins on the relevant road correcting the name, and took the initiative to post the following information:

(from Ed Atkinson) If you are planning a trip into the area of Cambie Creek or the Three Brothers and you observe snow machines on the west side of the ridge please call me at 250 809 6362 or 250 840 8708. You should have coverage at the peak of the ridge. This will allow me document the vehicles at known off load locations. When you return you may Email me at ed.atkinson@gov.bc.ca the details time, date, your contact information, location GPS is very helpful, any pictures - try to capture any registration # or plate #, GPS of approximant access location if possible, and any other information you might gather or think might be helpul.

In the original email from R Tivy to Ed Atkinson, one of the questions asked was exactly which roads he thought the rogue snow machines might be using. He replied in his email that he thinks it is the "Copper Creek branch". He has been in there on a snow machine himself. I have requested the exact location of that branch off the Sunday Summit FSR).

Another issue was signs. He says the problem is vandalism and disregard for the signs.

#1218 - 2009.04.08 Steve Grant - Excellent Idea
Perhaps this could be expanded to include other areas of habitual snowmobiler tresspass such as Garibaldi Park and Rainbow Lake. There would be great value in a central repository of such reports. As opposed to the current situation of widely scattered anecdotal reports.

However, the irresponsible snowmobilers probably would regard any such site as a massive threat to their culture.

#1216 - 2009.04.08 Robin Tivy - Phone Call To Introduce Snowmobile Infraction Database to John Trewhitt
This morning, I phoned John Trewhitt, on behalf of the encyclopedia to get as many facts as possible about initiatives he was undertaking. He is the section head for the Protected Areas Section for Okanagan in Penticton. Here is where

(Ministry of Environment > BC Parks and Conservation Officer Service Division > Interior Region - Kootenay Okanagan).

At the same time, I reported the most recent infractions, and introduced him to the "Zoning Infraction Database" on bivouac. He found the infraction database useful for getting exact locations (lat-longs).

John Trewhitt agrees with my analysis that the road we now call the Sunday Summit FSR is probably the road where the machines going into Manning Park originate. (Betsy and I studied Google Earth, and this road seems the most likely). I recently entered this road into Bivouac, it starts about 30 km east of Eastgate on Highway 3. That road is also the access to the Granite Mountain area in the Cascades Recreation Area, where snowmobiling is allowed.

John Trewhitt gave me the email address of Ed Atkinson, who is the area supervisor for Manning Park. (Email me if you need this address). I phoned his numbers, and then sent a detailed email to him, and am waiting a reply.

#1215 - 2009.02.07 Lesley Bohm - Letter from Lesley Bohm gets Good Reply
Lesley Bohm (of the North Shore Hikers and FMCBC) sent a letter on Feb 7, 2009 to Barry Penner (Minister of the Environment) reporting that on her trip up Cambie creek, snowmobiles were all over the ridge to the west of Three Brothers mountain. Barry Penner forwarded the letter to John Trewhitt, the section head for the Okanagan Region, who replied with an intelligent letter which indicated that they knew that the machines were entering the park via the north boundary, and were undertaking various initiatives such as working with local snowmobile clubs.